I'm no expert, but to me it just doesn't seem right. I've read some pretty compelling arguments from experts I respect who disagree with it.

I was recently re-reading bits of Andrew McLean's book "The Truth About Horses", where he says this about learned helplessness:

Quote:

Learned Helplessness If an animal experiences pain - for example from severe bits being applied with relentless pressure, or from constant spurring - and finds that no response results in relief, it may gradually habituate to the pain. This phenomenon is known as "learned helplessness".

There are some interesting videos on youtube posted by someone who is against it, the first one is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyozYRj2oz0

They quote the people who use the technique, and then show video they have taken of warm up arenas of riders using the methods.

The argument can clearly be made that some of these horses could be in a state of 'learned helplessness'.

There is also an interesting article here on riding horses "behind the vertical" in general, including the less extreme forms of it that are widely seen in competition.

A lot of food for thought!

So what do you think?

That behind the vertical article is so good. Every dressage fan should read it!

Hi, I'm new to this list. What artical are you referring to regarding BTV?
I personally think that most riders ride btv - and think it is correct. It is something to do with the roundness of the back to the front in motion. I do not see the sense in it, and certainly anyone riding rollkur should be banned from sitting on a beautiful horses back!

It's this article on SustainableDressage.com:

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/rollkur/behind_the_vertical.php